diff --git a/include/wx/msw/listbox.h b/include/wx/msw/listbox.h
index 2d77f86c1a..8157cbdcbd 100644
--- a/include/wx/msw/listbox.h
+++ b/include/wx/msw/listbox.h
@@ -133,6 +133,8 @@ public:
     virtual bool CanApplyThemeBorder() const { return false; }
 
 protected:
+    virtual wxSize DoGetBestClientSize() const;
+
     virtual void DoClear();
     virtual void DoDeleteOneItem(unsigned int n);
 
@@ -155,8 +157,6 @@ protected:
 
     unsigned int m_noItems;
 
-    virtual wxSize DoGetBestSize() const;
-
 #if wxUSE_OWNER_DRAWN
     // control items
     wxListBoxItemsArray m_aItems;
diff --git a/include/wx/msw/stattext.h b/include/wx/msw/stattext.h
index 28e1b79656..2bae454889 100644
--- a/include/wx/msw/stattext.h
+++ b/include/wx/msw/stattext.h
@@ -46,7 +46,7 @@ protected:
     // implement/override some base class virtuals
     virtual void DoSetSize(int x, int y, int w, int h,
                            int sizeFlags = wxSIZE_AUTO);
-    virtual wxSize DoGetBestSize() const;
+    virtual wxSize DoGetBestClientSize() const;
 
     virtual wxString DoGetLabel() const;
     virtual void DoSetLabel(const wxString& str);
diff --git a/include/wx/msw/window.h b/include/wx/msw/window.h
index 8a9a2aa7bc..4026e7ea06 100644
--- a/include/wx/msw/window.h
+++ b/include/wx/msw/window.h
@@ -501,6 +501,8 @@ protected:
                            int sizeFlags = wxSIZE_AUTO);
     virtual void DoSetClientSize(int width, int height);
 
+    virtual wxSize DoGetBorderSize() const;
+
     virtual void DoCaptureMouse();
     virtual void DoReleaseMouse();
 
diff --git a/include/wx/window.h b/include/wx/window.h
index 913cd7d0aa..c9e0c59546 100644
--- a/include/wx/window.h
+++ b/include/wx/window.h
@@ -1633,6 +1633,11 @@ protected:
     // same size as it would have after a call to Fit()
     virtual wxSize DoGetBestSize() const;
 
+    // this method can be overridden instead of DoGetBestSize() if it computes
+    // the best size of the client area of the window only, excluding borders
+    // (GetBorderSize() will be used to add them)
+    virtual wxSize DoGetBestClientSize() const { return wxDefaultSize; }
+
     // this is the virtual function to be overriden in any derived class which
     // wants to change how SetSize() or Move() works - it is called by all
     // versions of these functions in the base class
@@ -1647,6 +1652,19 @@ protected:
                                  int maxW, int maxH,
                                  int incW, int incH );
 
+    // return the total size of the window borders, i.e. the sum of the widths
+    // of the left and the right border in the x component of the returned size
+    // and the sum of the heights of the top and bottom borders in the y one
+    //
+    // NB: this is new/temporary API only implemented by wxMSW so far and
+    //     subject to change, don't use
+    virtual wxSize DoGetBorderSize() const
+    {
+        wxFAIL_MSG( "must be overridden if called" );
+
+        return wxDefaultSize;
+    }
+
     // move the window to the specified location and resize it: this is called
     // from both DoSetSize() and DoSetClientSize() and would usually just
     // reposition this window except for composite controls which will want to
diff --git a/src/common/wincmn.cpp b/src/common/wincmn.cpp
index 8a0ae4f54f..6243c4d73d 100644
--- a/src/common/wincmn.cpp
+++ b/src/common/wincmn.cpp
@@ -705,9 +705,20 @@ wxSize wxWindowBase::GetEffectiveMinSize() const
 
 wxSize wxWindowBase::GetBestSize() const
 {
-    if ((!m_windowSizer) && (m_bestSizeCache.IsFullySpecified()))
+    if ( !m_windowSizer && m_bestSizeCache.IsFullySpecified() )
         return m_bestSizeCache;
 
+    // call DoGetBestClientSize() first, if a derived class overrides it wants
+    // it to be used
+    wxSize size = DoGetBestClientSize();
+    if ( size != wxDefaultSize )
+    {
+        size += DoGetBorderSize();
+
+        CacheBestSize(size);
+        return size;
+    }
+
     return DoGetBestSize();
 }
 
diff --git a/src/msw/listbox.cpp b/src/msw/listbox.cpp
index 3e6b8a7612..84634d3088 100644
--- a/src/msw/listbox.cpp
+++ b/src/msw/listbox.cpp
@@ -590,7 +590,7 @@ void wxListBox::SetHorizontalExtent(const wxString& s)
     //else: it shouldn't change
 }
 
-wxSize wxListBox::DoGetBestSize() const
+wxSize wxListBox::DoGetBestClientSize() const
 {
     // find the widest string
     int wLine;
@@ -609,22 +609,17 @@ wxSize wxListBox::DoGetBestSize() const
         wListbox = 100;
 
     // the listbox should be slightly larger than the widest string
-    int cx, cy;
-    wxGetCharSize(GetHWND(), &cx, &cy, GetFont());
+    wListbox += 3*GetCharWidth();
 
-    wListbox += 3*cx;
-
-    // Add room for the scrollbar
+    // add room for the scrollbar
     wListbox += wxSystemSettings::GetMetric(wxSYS_VSCROLL_X);
 
     // don't make the listbox too tall (limit height to 10 items) but don't
     // make it too small neither
-    int hListbox = EDIT_HEIGHT_FROM_CHAR_HEIGHT(cy)*
+    int hListbox = SendMessage(GetHwnd(), LB_GETITEMHEIGHT, 0, 0)*
                     wxMin(wxMax(m_noItems, 3), 10);
 
-    wxSize best(wListbox, hListbox);
-    CacheBestSize(best);
-    return best;
+    return wxSize(wListbox, hListbox);
 }
 
 // ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
diff --git a/src/msw/stattext.cpp b/src/msw/stattext.cpp
index 7a20a94ae0..898487a88c 100644
--- a/src/msw/stattext.cpp
+++ b/src/msw/stattext.cpp
@@ -142,7 +142,7 @@ WXDWORD wxStaticText::MSWGetStyle(long style, WXDWORD *exstyle) const
     return msStyle;
 }
 
-wxSize wxStaticText::DoGetBestSize() const
+wxSize wxStaticText::DoGetBestClientSize() const
 {
     wxClientDC dc(const_cast<wxStaticText *>(this));
     wxFont font(GetFont());
@@ -159,40 +159,7 @@ wxSize wxStaticText::DoGetBestSize() const
         widthTextMax += 2;
 #endif // __WXWINCE__
 
-    // border takes extra space
-    //
-    // TODO: this is probably not wxStaticText-specific and should be moved
-    wxCoord border;
-    switch ( GetBorder() )
-    {
-        case wxBORDER_STATIC:
-        case wxBORDER_SIMPLE:
-            border = 1;
-            break;
-
-        case wxBORDER_SUNKEN:
-            border = 2;
-            break;
-
-        case wxBORDER_RAISED:
-        case wxBORDER_DOUBLE:
-            border = 3;
-            break;
-
-        default:
-            wxFAIL_MSG( _T("unknown border style") );
-            // fall through
-
-        case wxBORDER_NONE:
-            border = 0;
-    }
-
-    widthTextMax += 2*border;
-    heightTextTotal += 2*border;
-
-    wxSize best(widthTextMax, heightTextTotal);
-    CacheBestSize(best);
-    return best;
+    return wxSize(widthTextMax, heightTextTotal);
 }
 
 void wxStaticText::DoSetSize(int x, int y, int w, int h, int sizeFlags)
diff --git a/src/msw/window.cpp b/src/msw/window.cpp
index 45a3767f01..be4133f07f 100644
--- a/src/msw/window.cpp
+++ b/src/msw/window.cpp
@@ -2112,6 +2112,36 @@ void wxWindowMSW::DoSetClientSize(int width, int height)
     }
 }
 
+wxSize wxWindowMSW::DoGetBorderSize() const
+{
+    wxCoord border;
+    switch ( GetBorder() )
+    {
+        case wxBORDER_STATIC:
+        case wxBORDER_SIMPLE:
+            border = 1;
+            break;
+
+        case wxBORDER_SUNKEN:
+            border = 2;
+            break;
+
+        case wxBORDER_RAISED:
+        case wxBORDER_DOUBLE:
+            border = 3;
+            break;
+
+        default:
+            wxFAIL_MSG( _T("unknown border style") );
+            // fall through
+
+        case wxBORDER_NONE:
+            border = 0;
+    }
+
+    return 2*wxSize(border, border);
+}
+
 // ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
 // text metrics
 // ---------------------------------------------------------------------------